TSİ ve TFSİ aynı motorlar mı ? (2. sayfa)

TSİ ve TFSİ aynı motorlar mı ? - Sayfa 2

HondAta · 2012-05-19T23:24:36.0000000+03:00

Forumda benim gördüğüm ve yalnış bilindiğini düşündüğüm , TSİ VE TFSİ motorların farklı motor olduğuna dair yalnış bi durum var. Aslında farklı motorlar olması gerekiyor ama Vw bu kodlama işini Audi markasında biraz daha farklı hava katmak için TFSİ olarak adlandırıyor. FSI : Fuel Stratified injection TFSI : Turbo Fuel Stratified injection TSI : Twincharged Stratified injection ama aslında sorun burada TSİ adı tek turbolu olan 122'lik , 125'lik motorlarda da kullanılıyor ve isim değişikliğine gidiliyor. Ama kısaltma aynı. Bunun yerine direk VAG grubu altında TFSİ motorlara tek turbo sarjlı direk enjeksiyonlu motor denilse , TSİ ise direk cift turbolu motorları simgelese sıkıntı kalmıyor. Sıkıntı şurada başlıyor. Vw golf , leon , passat gibi araçlarında kullandığı 1.4 tsi 122-125 hp'lik motorlarına TSi derken , Audi markası altında A3'de mesela TFSİ diyor. Bu motorların yapısal olarak hiç bi farkı olmamakla birlikte , küçük yazılımsal farklılıkları var. quote: 1.4 R4 16v TSI/TFSI 90-133kW Based on the EA111, this new engine was announced at the 2005 Frankfurt Motor Show, to be first used in the Mk5 Golf GT, the 125 kW 1.4 litre TSI engine is a "Twincharger", and uses both a turbocharger and a supercharger. Its displacement downsizing leads to improved fuel economy, with 14% more power than the 2.0 FSI, but consuming 5% less fuel. The mechanical supercharger compressor, driven at 1.5 times the speed of the crankshaft, mainly operates at low engine speeds from tick-over up to 2,400 revolutions per minute (rpm) to increase low-end torque. At engine speeds just above idle, the belt-driven supercharger provides a boost pressure of 1.2 bars (17.4 psi). The turbocharger assumes full effectiveness at middle revs, and the engine map disengages the clutch-controlled supercharger at a maximum upper limit of 3,500 rpm; the supercharger will then be bypassed once the turbocharger spools up and reaches sufficient speed to provide adequate boost in the upper rev-ranges. This engine is made at Volkswagen-Motorenfertigung, Chemnitz. In 2007, Volkswagen announced the 90 kW model which will replace the 1.6 FSI 85 kW (116 PS; 114 bhp) engine. This engine differs from the 103 kW and 125 kW models in several ways. It uses only one method of forced induction - a turbocharger (and not a supercharger), and has water-cooled intercooler. The engine has reduced frictional losses, optimised camshafts, new intake ports, and new high-pressure injector valves. It is also 14 kilograms (31 lb) lighter than the 125 kW model, in order to improve fuel economy and reduce emissions. See also: G60 identification parts code prefix: 03C, ID codes: BLG, BMY, CAXC engine displacement engine configuration 1,390 cubic centimetres (84.8 cu in) inline-four engine (R4/I4); bore x stroke: 76.5 by 75.6 millimetres (3.01 in × 2.98 in), stroke ratio: 1.01:1 - 'square engine', 347.5 cc per cylinder, 120 bars (1,740 psi) peak pressures, compression ratio: 10.0:1 cylinder block crankcase grey cast iron; 82 mm (3.23 in) cylinder spacing, five main bearings, die-forged steel crankshaft, roller chain-driven oil pump cylinder head valvetrain cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 16 valves total, low-friction roller finger cam followers with automatic hydraulic valve clearance compensation, roller chain driven double overhead camshaft (DOHC), continuous adjusting variable intake valve timing aspiration hot-film air mass meter, cast alloy throttle body with electronically controlled Bosch "E-Gas" 'drive by wire' throttle butterfly valve 90 to 96 kW variants — two-part plastic intake manifold, turbocharger incorporated in exhaust manifold with maximum boost pressure 1.8 bars (26.1 psi), water-cooled intercooler integrated into intake manifold 103 to 125 kW variants — multi-ribbed belt-driven fifth-generation Eaton Roots-type positive displacement supercharger operated by a magnetic clutch integrated in a module inside the water pump, internal step-down ratio on the input end of the synchronisation gear pair, and KKK turbocharger with integrated wastegate connected in series, administrated by a control flap, 2.5 bars (36.3 psi) pressure at 1,500 rpm, front-mounted intercooler (FMIC) fuel system fully demand-controlled and returnless; - fuel tank–mounted low-pressure fuel pump; Fuel Stratified Injection (FSI): camshaft-driven single-piston high-pressure injection pump supplying up to 150 bars (2,180 psi) fuel pressure in common rail fuel rail integrated into the inlet manifold, four combustion chamber sited direct injection sequential solenoid-controlled six-hole fuel injectors, mounted on the intake side between the intake port and cylinder head seal level, homogeneous mixing, stratified lean-burn operation with excess air at part load, 90 to 103 kW variants — 95 RON ultra-low sulphur unleaded petrol (ULSP) 110 to 125 kW variants — 98 RON 'Super Unleaded' ultra-low sulphur unleaded petrol (ULSP) - 95 RON may be used, but will result in lower power output ignition system engine management centrally positioned NGK longlife spark plugs, mapped direct ignition with four individual direct-acting single spark coils; Bosch Motronic ME electronic engine control unit (ECU), knock control via a single knock sensor, permanent lambda control exhaust system cast iron exhaust manifold (with integrated turbocharger), one catalytic converter, two heated oxygen sensors monitoring pre- and post catalyst exhaust gasses DIN-rated motive power torque outputs, ID codes 90 kilowatts (122 PS; 121 bhp); 210 newton metres (155 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-4,000 rpm — Passat (2009 on) 90 kilowatts (122 PS; 121 bhp); 200 newton metres (148 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-3,500 rpm — CAXA; Golf Mk5 (2007 on), Tiguan (08/10->), Škoda Octavia Mk2, Scirocco Mk3 92 kilowatts (125 PS; 123 bhp); 200 newton metres (148 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-4,000 rpm — CAXC; Audi A3, SEAT Leon 96 kilowatts (131 PS; 129 bhp); 220 newton metres (162 lbf·ft) @ 1,750-3,500 rpm — CFBA; Golf Mk6, VW Jetta V, Passat B6, Škoda Octavia Mk2, LAVIDA(SAIC-VW), Bora 103 kilowatts (140 PS; 138 bhp); 220 newton metres (162 lbf·ft) — BMY; Touran from early 2006, Golf Mk5, Jetta 110 kilowatts (150 PS; 148 bhp) @ 5,800 rpm; 220 newton metres (162 lbf·ft) @ 1,250-4,500 rpm — CAVF; SEAT Ibiza FR 110 kilowatts (150 PS; 148 bhp) @ 5,800 rpm; 240 newton metres (177 lbf·ft) @ 1,750-4,000 rpm — BWK/CAVA; VW Tiguan 110 kilowatts (150 PS; 148 bhp) @ 5,800 rpm; 240 newton metres (177 lbf·ft) @ 1,750-4,000 rpm — CDGA; Passat B7 EcoFuel 118 kilowatts (160 PS; 158 bhp) @ 5,800 rpm; 240 newton metres (177 lbf·ft) @ 1,750-4,500 rpm — CAVD; Golf Mk6, Scirocco Mk3, VW Jetta TSI Sport 125 kilowatts (170 PS; 168 bhp) @ 6,000 rpm; 240 newton metres (177 lbf·ft) (MEP 21.7 bar) @ 1,750-4,500 rpm (200 N·m (148 lbf·ft) @ 1,250-6,000 rpm), rev limit: 7,000 rpm — BLG; Golf Mk5 GT, Jetta, Golf Plus, Touran 132 kilowatts (179 PS; 177 bhp) @ 6,200 rpm; — 250 newton metres (184 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 - 4,500 rpm, CAVE; SEAT Ibiza Cupra, Polo GTI, Fabia RS applications 2005 VW Golf Mk5, 2006 VW Touran, 2008 Audi A3, 2008 VW Scirocco, possibly in the 2008 VW Concept R, 2007 SEAT León, 2008 Škoda Octavia, 2009 VW Tiguan, 2009 VW Golf Mk6 Tsi motorların kendi aralarındaki farklılıkları 122'lik ve 160-170-180-185 hp'lik motorlar arasında. Çünkü diğerlerinde kompresör desteğide var. Ama kompresör desteği olmasına rağmen , bütün 1.4 tsi motorlar aynı blok ve aynı yapıya sahip motorlar. En azından yukarıda anladıklarım o yönde. Yazılan veriler ve dökümanlar bunu gösterir nitelikte. 2.0 TSi ve TFSİ motorlar arasında da yine bi farklılık yok. Yine Vw grubunun satış stratejisi gereği yaptığı , Audi firmasına farklı bi hava katmak için kullandı TFSİ harflerinden başka bi ibare değil. 2.0 TSi motoru CC 'de kullanıp TSİ adı ile sunarken , A5'de TFSİ olarak sunuyor ve aynı güçteki motorları vw'de 280 nm tork ile A5'de ise 350 nm tork ile sunuyor. Ama yine motorlar yapı itibari ile aynı motorlar. quote: 2.0 R4 16v TSI/TFSI 132-155kW (EA888) Manufacturing commenced March 2008. identification parts code prefix: 06H, 06J; ID codes: CAEA, CAEB, CAWB, CCZA, CDNB, CDNC engine displacement engine configuration 1,984 cubic centimetres (121.1 cu in) EA888 inline-four engine (R4/I4); bore x stroke: 82.5 by 92.8 millimetres (3.25 in × 3.65 in), stroke ratio: 0.89:1 - undersquare/long-stroke, 496.1 cc per cylinder; compression ratio: 9.6:1 (10.3:1 A3 Cabrio 2009), 88 mm (3.46 in) cylinder spacing cylinder block crankcase GJL 250 grey cast iron; 33 kg (73 lb), die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm (2.28 in) diameter main bearings, two toothed chain-driven counter-rotating balance shafts suppressing second degree free inertial forces and oil pump, horizontal-baffled oil sump cylinder head valvetrain cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 16 valves total, low-friction roller finger cam followers with automatic hydraulic valve clearance compensation, toothed chain-driven double overhead camshaft (DOHC), continuous vane-adjustable variable intake valve timing, Audi variants have two-stage "valvelift" inlet valve lift variable control aspiration hot-film air mass meter, cast alloy throttle body with electronically controlled Bosch E-Gas 'drive by wire' throttle butterfly valve, plastic variable length controlled intake manifold with charge movement flaps controlling combustion chamber air movement, BorgWarner K03 water-cooled turbocharger incorporated in exhaust manifold, sandwiched central front-mounted intercooler (FMIC) fuel system fully demand-controlled and returnless; - fuel tank–mounted low-pressure fuel pump; Fuel Stratified Injection (FSI): single-piston high-pressure injection pump driven by a four-lobe cam on the exhaust camshaft supplying up to 190 bars (2,760 psi) fuel pressure in the stainless steel common rail fuel rail, four combustion chamber sited direct injection sequential solenoid-controlled six-hole fuel injectors, air-guided combustion process, multi-pulse dual-stage injection during the induction and compression stroke with homogeneous mixing, stratified lean-burn operation with excess air at part load, 95 RON ultra-low sulphur unleaded petrol ignition system engine management centrally positioned longlife spark plugs, mapped direct ignition with four individual direct-acting single spark coils; Bosch Motronic MED 17 electronic engine control unit (ECU), cylinder-selective knock control via two knock sensors, permanent lambda control exhaust system cast iron exhaust manifold (with integrated turbocharger), close-coupled and main catalytic converters - both ceramic DIN-rated motive power torque outputs and applications - VW/Audi non-valvelift variants 147 kilowatts (200 PS; 197 bhp) @ 5,100-6,000 rpm; 280 newton metres (207 lbf·ft) @ 1,800-5,000 rpm — CCTA/CBFA: 2009 VW Golf Mk5 GTI (North American markets only), VW Jetta Mk5, VW Passat B6, VW CC, Audi A3 (8P) 155 kilowatts (211 PS; 208 bhp) @ 5,300-6,200 rpm; 280 newton metres (207 lbf·ft) @ 1,700-5,200 rpm — CCZA: VW Golf Mk6 GTI, VW Scirocco, VW Passat B6, VW CC, SEAT Altea Freetrack. 147 kilowatts (200 PS; 197 bhp) @ 5,100-6,000 rpm; 280 newton metres (207 lbf·ft) @ 1,700-5,000 rpm — CAWB: Audi A3 Cabriolet, VW Scirocco, CCZA: Audi TT, Škoda Superb Mk2 (3T) DIN-rated motive power torque outputs and applications - Audi/SEAT valvelift variants 132 kilowatts (179 PS; 177 bhp) @ 4,200-6,000 rpm; 320 newton metres (236 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-4,000 rpm — CAEA/CDNB: Audi B8 A4, Audi Q5 155 kilowatts (211 PS; 208 bhp) @ 4,300-6,000 rpm; 350 newton metres (258 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-4,200 rpm — CAEA/CAEB/CDNC: Audi B8 A4, Audi A5, Audi Q5, SEAT Exeo 155 kilowatts (211 PS; 208 bhp) @ 4,300-6,000 rpm; 350 newton metres (258 lbf·ft) @ 1,600-4,200 rpm : Audi TT Mk2 (8J), engine is installed transversely 155 kilowatts (211 PS; 208 bhp) @ 5,000-6,200 rpm; 300 newton metres (221 lbf·ft) @ 1,800-4,900 rpm : Audi Q3, engine is installed transversely Ayrıca FSİ motorlar ile TSİ ve TFSİ motorlar bambaşka motorlarda değiller. Fsi ile TSi-TFSİ motorların çalışma mantıkları tamamen aynı , tsi-tfsi motorları turbolanmış FSi motorlar olarak düşünebilir. Ama fsi motorlarda blok ve silindir hacimleri farklı. 1.6 fsi motoru direk turbolanmış hali yok mesela. 1.4 fsi motor olsaydı zayıf olabilirdi bu yüzden 1.6 fsi olarak piyasaya sürülmüş olabilir. Aşşağıdaki linktede prensip olarak aynı olduğundan bahsetmiş zaten. http://www.audi.com.tr/tr/brand/tr/models/a50/a5_sportback/ueruen_bilgileri/design/exterior.html#source=http://www.audi.com.tr/tr/brand/tr/models/a50/a5_sportback/ueruen_bilgileri/engines_and_transmissions/fsi.htmlcontainer=page Yine burada 2.0 tfsi motorun golf gti ile ortak olarak audi modellerinde kullanıldığı yazıyor. Ama golf gti adı altında satılırken motorun ismi TSİ. http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/060705b/content.shtml quote: The 2.0 TFSI embarked on its success story in the Audi A3 Sportback. It is now also on offer in the Audi A4 and A6. It is available in three performance versions ranging from 170 bhp to 220 bhp. The 200 bhp version, which is used in the Volkswagen Golf GTI, provides a level of propulsive power that truly befits that car's status. http://www.volkswagen.de/de/models/golf_gti/CC5.html Linkte'de bakarsanız golf GTi'da tsi olarak adlandırıldığını görürsünüz. Son olarak 2010 ödül listesinde de zaten böyle bi farkın olmadığı görülüyor. http://www.worldcarfans.com/110062426998/engine-of-the-year-2010-volkswagen-14-liter-tsi-wins quote: 1.8-liter to 2-liter BMW 2-litre Twin Turbo Diesel (123d, X1 23d) 293 Audi 2-litre four-cylinder TFSI (Audi A4, A4 Allroad, A5, A5 Sportback, A6, Q5, S3, VW Scirocco, Jetta, Passat, Tiguan, Golf, Seat Leon, Cupra R, Exeo, Skoda Octavia RS) 215 Audi 2-litre four-cylinder TFSI (Audi TT, VW Eos, Golf, Seat Leon, FR/Cupra, Seat Altea/XL/Freetrack) 156 Honda 2-litre four-cylinder i-VTEC (Civic Type-R) 150 Mitsubishi 2-litre Turbo (Evo, Lancer) 73 Subaru 2-litre Diesel (Impreza, Outlook, Forester, Legacy) 71 1-liter to 1.4-liter Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger (VW Golf, Scirocco, Jetta, Touran, Tiguan, Seat Ibiza Cupra) 307 Fiat 1.4-litre MultiAir Turbo (Alfa MiTo, Giulietta) 254 Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Turbo (VW Golf, Scirocco, Jetta, Skoda Superb, Octavia, Audi A1, Audi A3, Seat Leon, Altea/XL) 241 Volkswagen 1.2-litre TSI (VW Polo, Golf, Seat Ibiza ST, Skoda Octavia, Skoda Yeti) 146 Honda Hybrid 1.3-litre (Insight, Civic) 87 Fiat 1.4-litre Turbo (Fiat Punto Evo, Abarth 500, Abarth Grande Punto, Bravo, Linea, Lancia Delta, Alfa Romeo Mito, Giulietta) 70 Read more: http://www.worldcarfans.com/110062426998/engine-of-the-year-2010-volkswagen-14-liter-tsi-wins#ixzz1vLhpIBdA Özet olarak : Tsi-Tfsi motorlar şuan bana göre piyasadaki en başarılı , turbo beslemeye sahip motorlardan. Benim şahsi fikrim. Ama Vw grubu , ki yine bence haklı olarak , audi markası söz konusu olunca bu motorlara tsi motor demek yerine TFSİ motor demeyi tercih ediyor. Tamamen satış stratejisi olarak yapılmış bi durum. TDi motorlar için böyle bi adlandırma söz konusu değil çünkü tek bi açılıma sahip.

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